Curse

Master Mxyzptlk · Apr 23, 2010, 07:08 PM // 19:08

okay, posted it, was WAAY too long,

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

thoughts (mine are WOW!)

Dre · Apr 23, 2010, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mxyzptlk

okay, posted it, was WAAY too long,

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...pdate_previews

thoughts (mine are WOW!)

same here

I love what they're planning for panic
I don't know what they'll do with e-denial since monsters have nearly unlimited energy

instanceskiller · Apr 23, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Very impressed with the mesmer update but disappointed that the classes mentioned in the update (derv and para) won't have much of a presence in this update. However, I am happy knowing that they are considering them for future updates on a scale similar to this. I am also happy that there is finally a good enough reason to make my own mesmer. Though I have never played them, I am sure I will be seeing more of them in game than before.

On a final note, the way that the preview finished gave me the impression that the update may not be ready in time for next week which will include the last Thursday of April, which if they stick to their Bi-monthly schedule, is when the update should appear.

"we still have more things to tackle and a lot of fine-tuning to do. Depending on exactly how long this process takes, we may have another preview before the update comes out"

I hope that I am wrong.

Skyy High · Apr 23, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

As a key first step, we’re changing the way the Hard Mode casting speed increase works, so that spells with a casting time of 1 second or less are unaffected. This takes active interruption out of the realm of “don’t-even-think-about-it” to “maybe-if-the-payoff-was-good-enough.”

That alone gets a "F*** yeah!" from me. The rest looks very interesting. WW looks positively insane on bosses...

Mireles · Apr 23, 2010, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Very cool update....
It sounds like it won't be out for a few more weeks..(IE shadow form/600 nurf preview)

I hope this is not the new anniversary content.

Divine Ashes · Apr 23, 2010, 08:12 PM // 20:12

I made a pve Mes specifically in anticipation of this update, and it looks like I won't be disappointed...

Panic looks amazinnngg

Gift3d · Apr 23, 2010, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Sounds very promising, and sure as hell sounds better than being able to interrupt paragon chants.

FlyMoto · Apr 23, 2010, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I like how they are doing this as a mesmer.
I really am not looking forward to fighting monsters with mesmers in their groups now (or groups of mesmers...)

byteme! · Apr 23, 2010, 09:10 PM // 21:10

You all applaud this now. Give it a month. IF it turns out someone finds a way to abuse any one of these skills you'll all be back here crying for a nerf. You people are always like this. So don't get your hopes up just yet.

Steps_Descending · Apr 23, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

About time they looked at mesmer that way. This update will be a godsent.

To byteme: even if it's abusable, it can't be worst than SF. Beside, it will probably be harder to pull off than some other unnamed aforementionned skill.
The most fun will be having monsters using those on us!

EDIT: After a trip on wiki:

Crypt Wraith might get funny!
2 mesmer charr team should get fun too.
Shapeshifting krait mesmers might become a pain too.
Cursed Dream Riders will instantly get OH-SO-WTF-MORE epic!!!
I wonder how much the roaring ether will turn up. They hit kinda hard without mistrust...

And then you have the mesmers that snare...

Cuilan · Apr 24, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

So foes who have piss bars will suddenly be able to at least attempts to do something makes them hard?

zelgadissan · Apr 24, 2010, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

Cursed Dream Riders will instantly get OH-SO-WTF-MORE epic!!!

Yeah, those don't exist anymore.

This update worries me, namely PvP abuse since they plan on changing most of these for both PvE and PvP. The number one is that they're literally making a strong elite skill into a non-elite:

Quote:

We are aware that Psychic Distraction currently sees play in some PvP formats. We’re moving its current functionality to Complicate.

Buffing Empathy just leads to even stronger hexways.
Getting tired of not having monks on your RA team? Wait until the new Migraine is out.
Hard Mode Wind Riders will wipe your entire party instantly, particularly the Prophecies ones with both Migraine and CoF

No complaints with some mesmer love, but I don't know if this is the right direction for either side of the game.

Steps_Descending · Apr 24, 2010, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Yeah, those don't exist anymore.

This update worries me, namely PvP abuse since they plan on changing most of these for both PvE and PvP. The number one is that they're literally making a strong elite skill into a non-elite:

Oh! I forgot the wind riders, those groups will get REALLY fun to watch...

Yeah noticed after. I guess I just proved I barely set foot in UW.
For PvP, I doubt they will dare make massive change to pvp version. Migraine will very probably stay the same, empathy's change is also quite a stretch for pvp. But things like shrinking armor might come to pvp. But don,t trust me on that last one.

To Cuilan, the piss bar might become annoying, not necessarily strong.

Daesu · Apr 24, 2010, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyMoto

I really am not looking forward to fighting monsters with mesmers in their groups now (or groups of mesmers...)

That is also my worry. Mesmer monsters are going to be scary with massive shutdowns.

Myotheraccount · Apr 24, 2010, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

As a key first step, we’re changing the way the Hard Mode casting speed increase works, so that spells with a casting time of 1 second or less are unaffected. This takes active interruption out of the realm of “don’t-even-think-about-it” to “maybe-if-the-payoff-was-good-enough.”

They will make Hard Mode even less Hard.

I r disappoint.

Steps_Descending · Apr 24, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

They will make Hard Mode even less Hard.

I r disappoint.

Will it really make it that easier? Which is best, avoiding a barely noticeable decrease in difficulty or actually making whole mecanic (with the assosiated class) useful?

Blame PvESplit for the difficulty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That is also my worry. Mesmer monsters are going to be scary with massive shutdowns.

When you think about it, that's the only thing restricting PvE changes now. If they give something they give it to player and monsters. For most thing we know we'll use it better than the AI, but interupt is the one thing the AI does better than us.

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 24, 2010, 07:40 PM // 19:40

I'm really interested in sticking the new Psychic Distraction on a mesmer hero and watching him interupt and shut down everything an enemy tries to do lol esspecially mobs with only 1 real class/skill bar.

Also interested in Panic and Migraine and Frustration, and even moreso all of them used in tandem.

We might just start to see mesmer hero teams come about...

But I'd venture to say the majority of the builds would still be better on Necros. We'll see what they have planned for Fast Casting.

JDRyder · Apr 24, 2010, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

They will make Hard Mode even less Hard.

I r disappoint.

HM was poorly designed anyway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

When you think about it, that's the only thing restricting PvE changes now. If they give something they give it to player and monsters. For most thing we know we'll use it better than the AI, but interupt is the one thing the AI does better than us.

Well yes and no, sure they have a faster reaction, but they don't always interrupt the things that are actually important

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 25, 2010, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

They will make Hard Mode even less Hard.

I r disappoint.

Not really. For the most part, it's only going to matter if you're running interrupts on a human Mesmer, which only makes them more viable. The increase in casting time itself probably won't have a noticeable effect, especially since it's only <1 second spells that won't be affected.

PS: I'd say they'll tune down the Wind Riders. If any of the testers have a brain, they'll think about groups that consist primarily of Mesmers or tough groups that contain Mesmers, just as we've done in this thread.

Chthon · Apr 25, 2010, 12:47 AM // 00:47

[edit: gah! posted in the wrong forum. Meant to put this in the Riverside thread. I guess it can stay here though.]

My general impressions could be summed up in 6 major points:
1. The change the HM casting speed is a bigger deal than most folks seem to realize.
2. I'm not sure both problems with interruption in PvE are being solved.
3. It's very apparent that the effect of these buffs on the monsters was not considered very thoroughly, if at all.
4. A lot of these changes look like braindead powercreep.
5. Some of these changes look really inspired, if maybe overpowered.
6. The notes for the change to Fast Casting are too vague to say much about.

1. The change the HM casting speed is a bigger deal than most folks seem to realize.

This change is a lot bigger than mesmers in three ways.

First, it also makes ranger interrupts a little more viable. (That should have been obvious.)

Second, it makes HM a good deal easier on monks by reducing the the short-term DPS on chain casting by caster monsters. Consider a monster with 6 1sec direct damage skills. That should be pretty typical I guess. His AI tells him to spam out his bar, then wand until something recharges. Right now, he unloads his whole payload of spell damage in 6*(.5+.75) = 7.5sec and then kicks over to wand-and-wait mode. After the change, it will take him 6*(1+.75) = 10.5sec to unload his spells. That means his short term DPS drops by ~30%. Long-term DPS is going to stay about the same, but the worst of the heavy short-term pressure is going to ease up.

Third, it makes certain hard HM healer monsters a lot easier by reducing their short-term heal/sec on chain casting. Since these healers are the core of some of the hardest mobs in GW (think that first Summit mob in Duncan's dungeon), this is a difficulty change for high-end PvE.

2. I'm not sure both problems with interruption in PvE are being solved.

Interruption is currently pretty useless in PvE both because it's nearly impossible against the HM cast bonus and because it's more efficient to allocate your resources to just easier killing things a little bit faster. The HM cast speed change (plus the slow casting skills) only solve half the problem. Yes, it sounds like reliable interruption might become possible in HM. But it doesn't fix the problem that interruption isn't worthwhile compared to simply killing things a little bit faster. I don't really see a lot in the notes that addresses the second problem.

Frustration may be a step in the right direction. However, the damage would have to be HUGE to make up for the high probability it might not ever get triggered on a given target. At that point I start to worry about: Is this too strong a spike in the players' hands? In the heroes' hands? In the monsters' hands?

Specific buffs to certain interrupts might make those individual skills worthwhile. That's not as good as a global fix for the mechanic, but I suppose you only need ~3 decent interrupts to choose from and then you can make a bar.

3. It's very apparent that the effect of these buffs on the monsters was not considered very thoroughly, if at all.

The worst mobs are going to be large mesmer mono-mobs. Mindblades and Storm Riders come to mind.

The worst skills are going to be Migraine and Cry of Frustration.

Migraine because, (1) with a greater slow, it will completely shut down your monks, (2) against a HM mono-mob with multiple copies and the HM recharge bonus, it will be on your monks, and (3) mesmer monsters tend to stack hexes deep enough that conventional hex removal won't be adequate to get it off your monks. My impression right now is that nothing short of someone bringing elite hex removal, plus a few non-elite removals on the side, is going to be enough to counter a mono-mob with Migraine.

Cry of Frustration because the damage gets multiplied nastily by (1) the large number of copies in a mono-mob, (2) the HM recharge bonus, and (3) the tendency of the H+H to clump up and get hit with it over and over.

I really, strongly have to suggest either scrapping the changes to those two skills or tweaking the skillbars/attributes of Mindblades, Storm Riders, and a few other mesmer monsters.

4. A lot of these changes look like braindead powercreep.

Wastrel's Worry – damage is now area-of-effect
Cry of Frustration – increased the damage to 15…61…75
Accumulated Pain – lower energy cost; recharge is short; now deals decent damage
Phantom Pain – lower energy cost; shorter recharge; higher degen
Mistrust – much shorter recharge; much higher damage
Wandering Eye – lower energy cost; shorter recharge; much higher damage
Ineptitude – area of effect; slightly shorter recharge
Migraine – massive health degeneration; slows all skills, not just spells; makes spells easily interruptible

5. Some of these changes look really inspired, if maybe overpowered.

Psychic Instability. I can't tell if this is brilliant or daft. Too long a recharge and it's a worthless conditional Earthquake clone. Too short a recharge it it's probably OP/abusable.
Psychic Distraction. I've missed this mechanic since the Xinrae skills got changed.
Arcane Conundrum. E-management in the Illusion line? Great! (Well, assuming it's good enough we can really deop Inspiration as advertised...)
Empathy. Not my top choice for which skill to give the function to, but I like having straight mitigation. (See my post in the mesmer speculation thread for why.)
Shatter Delusions. That's an odd way to add damage to the mesmer. Which is perfectly fitting, because mesmers are supposed to have odd mechanics. I'd have to play with it a bit to see if it's practical though.
Panic. This is another surprisingly close to a throwback to D2-like hex (following on the heels of Blood Bond becoming Life Tap). I fear it may prove overpowered given the monster AI's stupidity, but I can't deny that it's very clever.
Stolen Speed. This is probably abusable, but I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

6. The notes for the change to Fast Casting are too vague to say much about. There's no description of the changes under consideration, so there can't be any feedback.